This is the thought that’s been with me throughout my entire life. I see the women of my family, and it’s kind of intimidating. Are they all perfect? No, of course not. Are they the nearest thing on this earth to perfection? I think so.
Let me tell you a little about my maternal family line. First of all, it’s large. My mom is one of 9 kids. Grandma and Grandpa might as well have planned the pattern out when they had three boys, three girls, three boys. Lots of male energy in that family, but don’t think that these strong women didn’t hold their own with the men. In the next generation, my grandparents were blessed with 24 grandchildren, 14 of whom were girls.
My grandmother was the oldest daughter, my mother was the oldest daughter, and I was the only daughter. I often get the question, “What was it like growing up the only girl with four brothers?” My answer is always the same. ”It was great. I wouldn’t have traded it for anything.” Because like my mom and her sisters who were far outnumbered, you just need to “hold your own” with the boys.
In my life, I’ve had an abundance of strong women to look up to, the sisters of both my mom and dad, the women that my uncles married, teachers, community leaders, etc. However, when I look to someone as the perfect example of what a woman should be, I look to my mother and my grandmother. Both raised large families, and always made sure they came first. This is not all that extraordinary; mothers do this every day. What amazes me is how both also managed to make such an amazing impact in the lives of those outside the family.
My grandmother, Shirley Hoffman, might look to an outside observer as one that’s always in the “background” while my grandfather, a deacon in the church and a lifelong youth minister and youth advocate, seems to be at the forefront of any situation. Those of us that are closer know better. As a young adult, I started to see exactly how active my grandmother was in the community, but perhaps more importantly, how she affected the lives of everyone that she came in contact with. Not only is she the engine that keeps my grandfather moving, she has projects of her own that most people don’t even know about.
Anyone that knows my mother, Susan Clingingsmith, will tell you that she is always the one that’s involved. Also a youth minister for most of her life, she has been working on behalf of children for longer than I can remember.
I could go on and on about their works in the community, but what has made the most lasting impression on me is the way they managed their families. Not a mother myself, I look forward to the day that I have children of my own so I can follow their example.
Since I don’t live anywhere near either of them, (and I miss them desperately!) I was all too glad to take this assignment. Not that I need an excuse, but it’s always nice when someone else gives you a reason to chat with two amazing ladies.
Jennafer Dawne (in Los Angeles): Hi Mom. Do you have some time to chat?
Mom (in Santa Clara, CA): Of course!
JD: We’re going to need at least 30 minutes for this, are you busy? M: Hmm, okay. Let me check with Dad. (Dad tells her that they have time.) So what’s up?
JD: Well, I’m writing that article for the Rockermoms e-zine, and Ed wants me to write about you and Grandma! Can I ask you some questions?
M: Sure.
JD: Okay, here goes. Did you always want to be a mother?
M: Yep.
JD: Umm, feel free to expound on anything here, or else this is going to be a very short interview. (both laugh) So, you always wanted to be a young mother, right?
M: Absolutely. I wanted to be a young mother. I wanted a big family. I don’t know why, but I actually enjoyed growing up in a big family.
JD: Why was it important to start your family at a young age?
M: I saw a strength in the women of my family and those that were very special or close to us. Most of them were homemakers, and did it in a way that I really admired. There was that nurturing quality. I saw that they knew how to make the family work, I saw the love there. I wanted that.
JD: Like who? Who were the most influential?
M: Grandma, for one, and the way she could handle a large family. There weren’t always 9 of us, but there was always a large family. Our needs were always met; we were always taken care of.
She brought out individual qualities in each of us. It had to be hard, but she always knew what to say when. For example, when I was very sick with my bladder, (a chronic illness throughout her childhood that required many hospital visits), she never made me feel like I was a burden on the family, she just helped me get through it. Grandpa was gone a lot (as a career NCO in the Air Force), and she was able to carry it all on her own. There were times when it was hard, and I could see that she was over-tired and stressed. But as a mom… even though I could see the reality of how hard it was, she never made me feel that it was because of the kids.
JD: Anyone else other than grandma? M: There was a nun at Transfiguration school. She was so young. I always thought she was too young to be a nun. I can’t remember her name! She was one of the reasons that I wanted to be a nun. She’s where I saw this attitude of loving everyone. She taught us that we could change the world by loving people. Sometimes we’re only called to do that in our own family, others are called to be speakers in front of the world. But she said that we MUST work at it. I fall back on that always, you need to start small and work on it. The two greatest commandments that we’ve been given are to love God above all else, and to love others. If we could get those two things down, then we’d be living in a perfect world.
JD: So, you met Dad and the nun thing was out. (Good thing for us kids!). You married young, and started a family right away. What was your biggest worry?
M: Were the kids going to be healthy? And could I love them enough?
JD: Really, not love us enough? You thought that might be a possibility?
M: Well, it goes back to how I saw myself. Did I have that inner strength to be second to the kids? Remember, I was so young that I was still trying to figure out who I was at that time.
JD: Did you see the women in your past and think it was a lot to live up to?
M: Yes, I thought, “Did I get all of those qualities? Do I have it in me?”
JD: So, from child number 1 to child number 5, were your concerns any different?
M: Oh yea, I was worried about having the energy! (both laugh) The energy to love [the youngest] the same way, I guess.
JD: And you were how old when you had #5?
M: Hmm, I was only 29. Oh my gosh! (laughs)
JD: Hmm, younger than I am now. Thanks mom. How could I EVER think about having kids at my old age.
M: Also, I thought about the patience that I would have. Wow, how that changed from the first kid to the fifth. You learn that the little things aren’t as important.
Health was always a concern, but I always knew that dad and I would be able to care for a child that had any disability. Though you always pray for healthy children, I knew from watching the examples before me that we would welcome and be able to love and care for a child with a disability just as if he or she were the same as any of our other children.
JD: What would you say was the most challenging thing about raising 5 kids?
M: Being and advocate for you kids.
JD: How do you mean?
M: We tried to keep a safe loving environment in the house, but we also tried to keep a safe environment outside. I learned early that kids didn’t have advocates, or adults that would speak up for them. It got me in a lot of trouble at times, but I wouldn’t have done it any differently. People would come to me and say, “We need someone to speak up for this. Talk to these people. We need a spokesperson.”
JD: Well, I happen to know that you’re very good at that. What were some examples?
M: Things as simple as making sure that every kid got to play during the sporting events. Or in the schools, making sure that stereotyping of any kind was not allowed. Most of the time, the teens were not listened to when issues arose about your schools, etc. You were all placed into categories and that was the end of it.
There was one time when I was in high school, fighting for something on behalf of our class and no one would take us seriously. Grandpa saw this and helped me out, but in a unique and empowering way. He made an appointment with the Principal, but when we arrived for the meeting, he just sat in the back of the office and told the Principal, “My daughter has something that she needs to speak to you about. I’m just here to support her.” He was there to make sure that I was heard and not just humored. That’s the example I tried to follow.
JD: I know that you worked in the community, but you really became a second mom to so many in our circle of friends.
M: Oh yea. I feel that we all need to be supported, especially those in our circles.
JD: Every one of us have friends to this day that you call you a very special term of endearment. How do you think that you became “Mama C” to so many?
M: I want to make sure that every child that I meet knows that they are loved. I don’t want anyone to ever feel that no one loves him or her. I try to share that. It’s not only me loving them; it’s God love that I share. I don’t push my idea of what “God” is on others, but I want to make sure that every child or every person that I cross paths with knows that they are loved. We don’t get that enough.
The interesting thing about it, is that it’s sometimes easier to do that when it’s not your own family. I pray that you kids had someone else outside the family to make you all feel that way, too. It’s easier to fall into the discipline role as parents.
JD: Yea, I don’t think we ever had a problem. Our friends’ parents loved us. We were charmers. Now that you’re a grandmother yourself, what do you think has changed in parenting?
M: Parenting at large? Or the way I see my grandchildren?
JD: Ooh, that’s good. We’ll do both.
M: I see a shift that parents are, in one sense they’re more in-tune with their kids. There’s a real interest in them. It’s important to be at the sporting events; that they don’t just say, “Go and do your homework” but more like, “Let me help you with your homework.” The interest level is there as an individual.
On the other hand, I see two things happening. There’s a hesitance to discipline, or to lay down the law. Many think that the child will be damaged if we’re too strict. In reality children are more comfortable when they know what the boundaries are. Young parents are conflicted as to discipline or not.
The second thing I see? Parents don’t want to say no to their kids. I see kids that don’t have any down time to just be kids. Every minute of their day is planned out with activities or duties. Some are way too involved, and I see the activities becoming a burden on the kids.
When I was raising the first couple of you, organized sports were mainly to have fun. What I see now is that kids are pushed from a very young age to be the best and start competing so early. And parents say to each other, “He can quit of he’s not having fun,” but if the kids don’t hear that often from their parents, all they get from society is to keep at it, don’t quit, be the best or you’ve failed. JD: Oh yea. It’s out there. Now the second part? Your own grandbabies? M: Well, I see my biggest role is just to love them. To let them know that they always have a place to come. And no matter what happens they are always loved. I’m older and more patient, I don’t have to worry about the discipline, I can just do the love part. Also I’d like to make sure that the bond between my kids and their kids is about open communication. I can be a buffer if it’s ever needed.
Lastly, my job is to spoil them and send them home. (laughs) And to make sure they know that my grandbabies are the best in the world!
You know, I really hope that I got that message across to my own children, (choking up) that you are the most special kids in the world.
JD: Wow, I’m surprised that we almost got through this without crying! That’s a record. Well of course I’m not going to argue with you on that point. (both laugh)
M: I’d also like to mention that it’s always in the front of my mind that my daughters-in-law and my son-in-law will always understand that, too. It’s very important to me that they know that I see them as my children.
JD: That would be your hypothetical son-in-law. Unless you’ve got someone that I’m arranged to marry?
M: Yes, my future son-in-law. I want them to know that I’ll love them as my own, and that I’ll kick ‘em in the butt when they need it, I don’t care who’s kid you are!
JD: I think we all get that, Mom. Any last bits of advice or words of wisdom for Rockermom readers out there?
M: Trust your parental instincts. Nothing is stronger. You have a bond with those children and you need to trust those instincts. No matter who you’re talking to, no matter how far up the chain they may be. You know when something’s wrong with your children, and you keep pushing until you’re satisfied. Maybe the teacher or doctor ends up being right, but more times than not the parents’ instincts are going to be right when it comes to their own kids. The second thing is to listen to your children with that same attitude. Not only listen to what they’re saying, but also see how they’re acting and respect that. We tend to listen to others in authority because the kids are just kids. Pay attention to your kids, honor that, respect it. (Dad interjects here): Sometimes we learn that the hard way, like with that babysitter that was beating you when you were too young to talk. We didn’t pay attention to your actions and body language. Everyone just told us that you were only reacting to mom going back to work, etc. If we had listened to what you were trying to tell us, we could have stopped it sooner. The last thing I’ll say is don’t be afraid to be human. You’re going to make mistakes and that’s okay. You’re not going to damage your children, or rather the damage that you do will just make them fit in with society. (both laugh) There is no such thing as the perfect parent.
JD: Except mine! (giggles. Always take the opportunity to score points with Mom!)
M: It comes down to your gut feeling. I want to add how proud I am of my children, because all of this is moving on through the next generation. You are all advocates for children, and dad and I are so flippin’ proud of you. It IS being passed down, and I am so very proud of that.
JD: Geez, like I’m not going to include that! I’m going to add one thing that I’ve learned from you. “Jenna…never, ever say goodbye without saying ‘I love you.’ I don’t care if you and your brothers are fighting, always say it. You never know when it will be the last time you’re going to speak to that person, and they need to hear it.” I love that lesson, and I’m glad to say that we all use it every single day. Mama, thanks so much for taking the time and doing this with me. Now you and Dad go out and enjoy your day off! I love you both!
M: I love you too. Dad says he loves you, too. Bye!
JD: Bye!
Be sure to read next month’s issue for the interview with Grandmother Extraordinaire, Shirley Hoffman. Susan Clingingsmith, mother of five, grandmother of three (and counting) works in Palo Alto, CA at St. Thomas Aquinas Catholic Church with children from pre-K through 5th grade. She spent over 25 years working with teenagers as a Youth Minister, youth counselor and public speaker.
Jennafer Dawne, singer/song-writer, currently resides in Los Angeles, CA and works as a teacher at a College of Massage Therapy. She has volunteered for the last 13 years in Youth Ministry. She also does occasional guest speaking/musical engagements for youth groups throughout California.
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